Tire recommendations for track duty

Hi all!

I know this topic has been beaten over the head but haven’t been able to find a recommendation based on what I’m looking for. Please point me to a thread if I missed one that you think will help!

To give you some background, I’ve been sim racing for a few years now and compete at my local sim center. I’m fast enough to be top 5 in setting lap times (we have a time attack comp that resets track and car each month) and typically finish top 5 in races. On the sim I’m comfortable racing anything from a Miata cup to prototype car with no traction control and no abs.

I’m ready to see if some of my sim experience will translate onto a racetrack so I’m looking to see some real track time for the first time. I have an e90 m3 on comp suspension and have bought bimmerworld ta5r 18x11 (4) and 18x9.5 (2)l for track duty. I have brembos 6/4 pot and all cooling mods en route so I don’t need to do cool down laps very often.

I’m looking for a track tire that is compliant over curbs and will be consistent throughout the day. I care less about setting one crazy fast time that drops off for the rest of the session. I’d love it if the tires would last me a full session with a few heat cycles. Essentially I’m looking for more or an endurance tire than a time attack tire. Is there a specific model someone with experience would recommend?

Note: I know I should do suspension but my wife drives the car from time to time so comp springs are the lowest and stiffest I can go before she’s unhappy .

Attached are photos of my m3 on its street setup

I’m looking for a track tire that is compliant over curbs and will be consistent throughout the day.

Can you run 18x11 square? If so, 295/30/18 Continental ECF and run them for like 6-8 days or something. I would say it's probably the gold standard for an Endurance 200 right now, the issue is that there is no 18" sizes besides 245, 275, and 295 - though a 275/295 stagger might work with those wheel widths. The other option is probably Yokohama AD09 which seems to have more sizing options. If you run an open track event with Socal Drivers Club or something, the ECF is even more of a recommendation as they are designed for one long heat cycle (as an endurance event) over an autocross tire with many short heat cycles.

The other recommendations, like V730, might not apply since the widest 18" size is a 275. Another option might be the Hankook RS4 but that seems to heat cycle out faster than the ECF, which should get to 30+ HCs while retaining most of its pace.

I would not recommend Super 200s due to longevity, ballooning pressures, learning curve, and cost. I also would not recommend running 300+ tw as a dedicated track set - dealing with getting greasy, cooldown laps, etc is not all that fun.

I’m looking for a track tire that is compliant over curbs

I don't think this is going to be a deciding factor for your tire. I don't think this is really tested per se, and this is going to be more on your suspension.

comp springs are the lowest and stiffest

You might find that some better suspension options such as MCS 2WR/3WR or JRZ or OGSM Nitron (along those lines) might give up little in street comfort for a lot more in track performance. I daily my car on Nitron R1s from OG Shark's custom spec and it's liveable in ride comfort, with 200tw (ECF or CRS). You will also want camber plates to maximize your front end grip, as well as save the outer edge of your tires. I think that camber plates are less of an upgrade and a minimum thing for the sake of your own wallet - though with a tire like ECF or RS4 I am less concerned as you will probably reach the end of their heat cycle life far before the tread is all gone.

omgzirra_exe are these formerly your wheels lmao

edit: you can also look into the Goodyear Supercar 3 but that is also not in the right sizes for your wheels. If you have loads of money to blow then the Nankang CRS does satisfy your requirement of "consistent throughout the day" (caveat of not overheating them, and bleeding pressures throughout the day) but will last maybe 4-5 days, but is a lot faster with seemingly less feedback.

Hoosier R7 if they are track only tires

dehchung1992 wrote

Hi all!

I know this topic has been beaten over the head but haven’t been able to find a recommendation based on what I’m looking for. Please point me to a thread if I missed one that you think will help!

To give you some background, I’ve been sim racing for a few years now and compete at my local sim center. I’m fast enough to be top 5 in setting lap times (we have a time attack comp that resets track and car each month) and typically finish top 5 in races. On the sim I’m comfortable racing anything from a Miata cup to prototype car with no traction control and no abs.

I’m ready to see if some of my sim experience will translate onto a racetrack so I’m looking to see some real track time for the first time. I have an e90 m3 on comp suspension and have bought bimmerworld ta5r 18x11 (4) and 18x9.5 (2)l for track duty. I have brembos 6/4 pot and all cooling mods en route so I don’t need to do cool down laps very often.

I’m looking for a track tire that is compliant over curbs and will be consistent throughout the day. I care less about setting one crazy fast time that drops off for the rest of the session. I’d love it if the tires would last me a full session with a few heat cycles. Essentially I’m looking for more or an endurance tire than a time attack tire. Is there a specific model someone with experience would recommend?

Note: I know I should do suspension but my wife drives the car from time to time so comp springs are the lowest and stiffest I can go before she’s unhappy .

Attached are photos of my m3 on its street setup

The Tire Talk Megathread:
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1916791
Source Grassroots Motorsports Magazine Tire Testing
.

bipp gave you some solid tire options. My personal favorite 200TW is the Yoko A052. I started using the A052 when it had a softer compound (I don’t think the actual compound has changed, just its Yoko internal tread rating has changed). GY SC3 is another option which bipp listed in his post. The Bridgestone RE-71RS has good grip and longevity. The Nankang CRS is the other 200TW tire that I’d recommend but its longevity is on the lower side. The new Hoosier Track Attack Pro is a great option if you’re looking to turn faster lap times or to beat your PB lap times but their longevity is considerably lower than the 200TW options but they outlast the R7/A7.

What are the offsets on the 18x11 wheels?

It’s your suspension setup that will add compliance especially during curb strikes. My personal recommendation would be a MCS remote reservoir setup (2WR or 3WR) which are still quite compliant with F/R 700/1100 lbf/in (rear divorced) or 800/700 lbf/in (rear coilover). You can also alter the pressure in the reservoirs to add compliance or increase pressure to add more support. Moton, Ohlins TTX, Nitron, JRZ Reds and Intrax are other available high-end track options. Spring rates may vary a bit between different options and the

Honestly go on street tires first if you already have them (like PS4S), then pick up some endurance tires (RS4, ECF, AD09, etc.) if you decide that this is something you want to do regularly.

Sim racing is like learning a language but only through typing it out whereas being on track is like having a real life conversation. Sounds like an oversimplification but G-force changes everything. No point in spending too much money on extra grip until your mind/body is used to operating in a track environment and you've decided you want to keep doing it. Also... don't attack curbs IRL with a street car on street suspension, that part is not like the sim.

Anyway just my $0.02.

RugbyBro wrote

Honestly go on street tires first if you already have them (like PS4S), then pick up some endurance tires (RS4, ECF, AD09, etc.) if you decide that this is something you want to do regularly.

Sim racing is like learning a language but only through typing it out whereas being on track is like having a real life conversation. Sounds like an oversimplification but G-force changes everything. No point in spending too much money on extra grip until your mind/body is used to operating in a track environment and you've decided you want to keep doing it. Also... don't attack curbs IRL with a street car on street suspension, that part is not like the sim.

Anyway just my $0.02.

Agreed. You can run RE-71RS or PS4S your first time out and still run the same times as you're getting used to the experience. Go out a few times stock, confirm you're interested in continuing the hobby, then step up brakes and tires and have fun is my advice.

RugbyBro wrote

Honestly go on street tires first if you already have them (like PS4S), then pick up some endurance tires (RS4, ECF, AD09, etc.) if you decide that this is something you want to do regularly.

Sim racing is like learning a language but only through typing it out whereas being on track is like having a real life conversation. Sounds like an oversimplification but G-force changes everything. No point in spending too much money on extra grip until your mind/body is used to operating in a track environment and you've decided you want to keep doing it. Also... don't attack curbs IRL with a street car on street suspension, that part is not like the sim.

Anyway just my $0.02.

He bought an 18x11 square wheel setup (plus two 18x9.5) so I doubt his current tires will work with that setup or even the 18x9.5 + 18x11 staggered setup. I personally wouldn’t spend the money on 300TW tires for the new track wheels. RE-71RS would be a good 200TW tire to start out with. Either way, camber plates should be installed with his current suspension setup to extend the life of his new track setup.

AD09 or RS4 would be my picks for endurance tires. Since it is your first time on track despite having sim experience, it is always better to start at the "lower" grip end of the 200 TW category. You'll learn a lot more than starting off with a CRS, A052, RE71RS type (super 200) which can mask poor fundamentals.

Nangkang CR-S. 200 treadwear, but grips like a semi slick. Lots of fast 911 cup cars are also running them now.

V730 gets my vote. I have them and they are great. Cheap tires = more track time.

nycplumber wrote

V730 gets my vote. I have them and they are great. Cheap tires = more track time.

This post isn’t directed at you. It’s more of a “FYI” post about tire recommendations.

Tires, like brakes, are more than just purely objective. Different tires develop grip differently, have different breakaway characteristics as you approach the limit, etc., all of which are a function of driving and braking styles. Basically, it’s hard to recommend a tire based on what you personally like about a tire. Decades ago I used to recommend PFC race pad compounds to friends but then I noticed my friends would switch to different PFC compounds. Brakes have a lot of different objective performance metrics which work better/worse for different styles of braking as well as subjective differences. Tires fall into similar categories. I prefer the A052 but I have friends who are not fans. Tire performance is also affected by your suspension setup and alignment with/without corner balancing. The best way to “recommend” a tire is to describe what you do and don’t like about a tire and, even then, it’s not usually enough. For example, an inexpensive tire doesn’t always equate to more track time if it heat cycles out too quickly or it loses most of its max grip after just one track session/heat cycle.

How come the 660's don't get any love here?
I ran RE71R then RE71RS and now 660 since they were CHEAP on TireRack.
Grip is similar to the RE71RS and wear is similar to maybe a touch better but the price is amazing if you're willing to give up a couple 10th's. I don't time attack so just out having fun with my buds so I'll save the money. Was keeping up with faster cars last track event.. but then a race prep MX5 with a real race car driver slowly realed me and and then slowly pulled away. Sigh. Still much to learn.
But next session kept up with an R8 with huge front splitter and huger rear wing.
.

t_win wrote

AD09 or RS4 would be my picks for endurance tires. Since it is your first time on track despite having sim experience, it is always better to start at the "lower" grip end of the 200 TW category. You'll learn a lot more than starting off with a CRS, A052, RE71RS type (super 200) which can mask poor fundamentals.

I have been running AD09 on mine and I just don't gel with them on this car. I had them on my Megane RS and they were amazing there.

In the E92 M3 they just don't feel sharp, it feels a bit vague on turn-in and I can't feel anything before it loses grip.
I think their sidewalls are too soft and the heavy front end of this car makes them roll over. If you up the pressure to compensate then it gets too hot and greasy.

I managed 7 trackdays with them and despite having -2.5 camber up front they still got wrecked on the outer edges especially the fronts that have chunks ripped out. If wear was more even they would have enough tread for maybe 10-14 track days.

I've just had fresh RE71-RS tyres put on after reading some good impressions of them on this car so I'll see how they go on my next trackday next Thursday. I know they're known for less longevity but if the stiffer sidewalls mean they wear more evenly then that will balance out.

AD09 I'd solidly recommend for lighter cars - hot hatches, BRZs, maybe Porsches. Maybe the F8 x series M cars as the lighter engine up front may mean they don't push the sidewalls as much.
I did drive an F82 m4 with them on track before and they felt great there but they were still pretty new.

Maddmatth what hot pressures were u running the AD09? I used to run AD08R 35-36psi hot and had no issues on track with the M3.

Just this past weekend I ran RE71RS for the first time at track. Holy shit, what a difference! The 200tw rating is misleading, the 71RS offers insane amounts of grip compared to the AD08R. I know the AD09 is supposed to be a step up from the 08R so I'd be interested to hear your impressions about the AD09 vs RE71RS.

Btw I also had a Megane RS250 before moving on to the M3. I miss the balance of the Megane.

Redd wrote

Maddmatth what hot pressures were u running the AD09? I used to run AD08R 35-36psi hot and had no issues on track with the M3.

Just this past weekend I ran RE71RS for the first time at track. Holy shit, what a difference! The 200tw rating is misleading, the 71RS offers insane amounts of grip compared to the AD08R. I know the AD09 is supposed to be a step up from the 08R so I'd be interested to hear your impressions about the AD09 vs RE71RS.

Btw I also had a Megane RS250 before moving on to the M3. I miss the balance of the Megane.

I started out at 33 hot as that seems to be the usual recommendation with them, and just couldn't get much feel out of them. Right from the first track day I noticed outside wear starting.
Gradually moved up and also felt 35-36 was probably the best. I think I had one trackday where I thought they felt pretty good but that was it.
I was trying to work out good settings for my coilovers along the way and getting the hang of the car after being used to my Megane so that may have been the issue/

My last trackday with them was the point where I felt properly comfortable with the car and coilover settings, and turned DSC fully off. Practiced some powerslides. This was also when I tried the highest pressures - 37/38. But still felt the tyres felt vague on the limit and the car tended toward understeer on turn-in.
At the end of the day the front tyres had chunks ripped out of the outside edge.

Although at this point maybe they've been heat-cycled out, maybe if I had my coilover settings and pressure nailed down with fresh AD09s I'd feel better?

As for my new set of RE71RS... will find out next week Thursday and Sunday at Sydney Motorsport Park. It's the rainy time of the year though so hopefully at least one of those days is dry


My Megane is a Mk4 RS Cup (280). Still have it and it still has AD09s, think I need to get her on track at least once more before selling...
But I also like having it for when I'm driving around inner city areas and dealing with traffic...

Not sure why you guys run street pressures at the track. I’ve always run high 20’s (hot) on most track tyres and grip is better for it.

I don’t think outside wear, especially on the front is particularly related to tyre pressure especially on a heavy ass E92 M3.

MFKN3 wrote

Not sure why you guys run street pressures at the track. I’ve always run high 20’s (hot) on most track tyres and grip is better for it.

I don’t think outside wear, especially on the front is particularly related to tyre pressure especially on a heavy ass E92 M3.

For me it's cos my M3 is also my daily car and I couldn't be bothered to swap brakes and tires every time I want to go to track (which is not often lol).

maddmatth wrote

... getting the hang of the car after being used to my Megane so that may have been the issue

That's probably the main issue lol. The M3 will never feel as sharp, nimble and balanced as the Megane. I've spent the better part of the last 9 years trying to get the M3 to feel as close as possible to the Megane and I can't say I'm there yet. And it will be expensive. The M3 is faster, has more mechanical grip but it is not as nimble and balanced as the Megane. With the Megane you kinda dance around the corners, adjusting direction with millimeter adjustments of the throttle pedal. With the M3 you just gotta grab it by the scruff of the neck and drag it screaming thru the turn lol.

Redd wrote

That's probably the main issue lol. The M3 will never feel as sharp, nimble and balanced as the Megane. I've spent the better part of the last 9 years trying to get the M3 to feel as close as possible to the Megane and I can't say I'm there yet. And it will be expensive. The M3 is faster, has more mechanical grip but it is not as nimble and balanced as the Megane. With the Megane you kinda dance around the corners, adjusting direction with millimeter adjustments of the throttle pedal. With the M3 you just gotta grab it by the scruff of the neck and drag it screaming thru the turn lol.

Crazy thing is an F82 M4 feels as nimble as a Megane though, just with the added power-on oversteer that can kill you if you're not smooth! What magic did BMW do there? I thought upgraded suspension would at least bring the M3 closer to that but it just can't dance like they can.

What I've found with the M3 is if you have to trail brake or it understeers terribly.
Trail-brake into the turn then power out the apex because while you're not on throttle or brakes it understeers.
Which I guess is, as you say, grabbing it by the scruff of the neck lol.

Update on the RE71RS tyres...

Car feels fantastic on them. Certainly more traction from these than the AD09. But also as reviews have said they are prone to overheating, if you do several successive fast laps they lose grip and you're probably wearing them faster. I certainly noticed this, I'd break traction and start to slide out if I went fast for too long.

At Sydney motorsport park I ended up doing max 2 successive fast laps then a slower one to cool them. This worked ok.

Tyre pressures around 34-35 seemed to feel best to me. That's where I set my fastest laps.
Felt a bit soft and loose to me at 33, making me less confident in corners.

At the same time I think I found better settings for my coilovers and I don't have any understeer troubles now, car is cornering beautifully and feeling very neutral.

I still get just as much outside wear with them but I think I just need more camber. Might go to 3 degrees. I probably should have gone wider with my wheels and tyres, I just matched F82 specs (255F/275R)

maddmatth wrote

At the same time I think I found better settings for my coilovers and I don't have any understeer troubles now, car is cornering beautifully and feeling very neutral.

I found that solid rear subframe bushings, stiffer rear differential bushings, front monoballs and full rear spherical conversion greatly increased grip and confidence and made the M3 more danceable. Especially the rear spherical conversion. I'd highly recommend it if you're still chasing that Megane chassis feel.