DrFerry wroteHey, so BMW rechecked with looking specifically for the bend. Found a slight bend in one of the front wheels and that there's a bit of play in the front end links. I will report back once these are fixed if they do indeed get rid of the vibration/shakeSome road force machines only capture radial force variation and don't sample lateral force variation caused by lateral run out of the assembly from a bent wheel. Though it's unusual to have lateral run out and not some radial run out at the same time. Since your 359M wheels were very curb scrubbed - from the previous owner - it's possible those wheel(s) were slightly bent. A 0.5mm to 1mm bend is quite hard to see with the naked eye. You mentioned the previous owner also felt the shake and replaced some parts (thrust arm and tie rods) so it's possible the root cause could just have been bent wheels from curb impact scrub.
This logic is supported by the fact that your BBS RIA wheels considerably reduce the shake. Before spending more money ($$) on suspension parts you could ask the Dealer to try some different (and newer) wheels and tires to confirm the reduced shake as seen with your BBS RIA wheels. The BBS RIA assemblies could also be slightly out of balance.
Possible Root Cause Analysis Cascade:
1) Ask Dealer to try alternative set of wheels and tires
2) Check 359M wheels for lateral and radial run out by a wheel repair service
3) Check lateral run out of the brake rotors
4) Check for pad deposition on the brake rotors (discoloration) and clean the brake rotor surfaces
5) Check for wheel bearing play (though a bad bearing is audible)
Good luck. Please report back with what you or the Dealership discover.
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ethhaynes7 wrote1-8-25Hey, so BMW rechecked with looking specifically for the bend. Found a slight bend in one of the front wheels and that there's a bit of play in the front end links. I will report back once these are fixed if they do indeed get rid of the vibration/shake
So just picked the car up and got home (45 min drive). It spent nearly three weeks at the dealer over the holidays. Front end links replaced, front right wheel bend fixed and road force balanced, got an alignment (nothing in the front was out of spec). And shake didn't change at all, still very much present. Happens at 80-90 mostly.
Basically everything in the front end has been replaced besides brakes, struts, steering rack. 2013 original 359m wheels, just got the one that was slightly bent fixed by the bmw guy, brand new michelins, has had new thrust arms, lots of components in the past 20k miles.
Super annoying vibration
ethhaynes7 wroteEarlier you mentioned the shake is different between the two sets of wheels you have. At this point, I think it's worth revisiting again an idea I posted earlier above i.e. to borrow a different set of hub-centeric wheels and tires from the Dealership to conduct a comparison test run without any spacers. In this way you can isolate if it's the wheels and tires for certain. A second point to investigate is the brake rotors. If the brake rotors are warped, or have lateral run out, then vibration will result. PS: Perhaps the BMW Dealership Service Manager would be open to conducting the test? If not then perhaps someone with an E9X M3 local to you and member of the forum might be willing to help conduct the test by temporarily loaning his wheel assemblies..1-8-25
So just picked the car up and got home (45 min drive). It spent nearly three weeks at the dealer over the holidays. Front end links replaced, front right wheel bend fixed and road force balanced, got an alignment (nothing in the front was out of spec). And shake didn't change at all, still very much present. Happens at 80-90 mostly.
Basically everything in the front end has been replaced besides brakes, struts, steering rack. 2013 original 359m wheels, just got the one that was slightly bent fixed by the bmw guy, brand new michelins, has had new thrust arms, lots of components in the past 20k miles.
Super annoying vibration
DrFerry wroteVery much appreciate your response!Earlier you mentioned the shake is different between the two sets of wheels you have. At this point, I think it's worth revisiting again an idea I posted earlier above i.e. to borrow a different set of hub-centeric wheels and tires from the Dealership to conduct a comparison test run without any spacers. In this way you can isolate if it's the wheels and tires for certain. A second point to investigate is the brake rotors. If the brake rotors are warped, or have lateral run out, then vibration will result. PS: Perhaps the BMW Dealership Service Manager would be open to conducting the test? If not then perhaps someone with an E9X M3 local to you and member of the forum might be willing to help conduct the test by temporarily loaning his wheel assemblies..
Yeah, it goes back next week. I was almost thinking of throwing the rear 359's on the front this weekend and seeing if that changes anything but I'm a little worried about rubbing with 275 35 PSAS. I think the shake is pretty similar although a good bit less between my BBS RIA and I can't imagine those are also bent, maybe due to wheel weight/size/right offset that don't need a spacer. The hub centric spacers seem to exaggerate it a fair bit, have tried multiple sets ecs (15,12.5) and bimmerworld (12mm) spacers. It's currently got no spacers on it now and shake is noticeable still past 70. Although spacers make it pretty bad. I know the tech working on it and him and the service manager at the dealer looked it over. He thinks it's gotta be something in the rack or column if I still feel it since they didn't seem anything bushing wise but obviously need to look at it more. Brake rotors could definitely be it, I'll ask them to check them. My E92's on original rotors I believe, although I don't feel any shake during braking. Maybe a wheel bearing too although no noise.
Thrust arms, tie rods, control arms, etc have all been replaced prior and look good.
I'll make sure to update the forum as I go in the event it's something not so common, I have some vids but not sure how to upload here and really its just the steering wheel hardly visibly vibrating/shimmy back and forth at 70+
TLDR: shake is gone! The solve: slight bent 359 oem wheel, then road force balancing again at BMW.
What we did:
Last week, they outsourced the wheel repair. From what I can gather, the guy managed to get the wheel round, but in the process, it ended up out of balance, wheel weights fell off possibly, hence why the shake felt worse/unchanged.
I took the car back to BMW, and they were great about it. This morning, I went for a ride with the foreman, and he noticed the pretty big shake immediately, just a second after I hit 75 mph. He immediately called out its probably a wheel balance...
They rebalanced all four wheels, the repaired rf one was out of road force balance spec. Rebalanced all and swapped rf to lf.
When I picked up the car, I went for another ride with the foreman, and I couldn’t believe the difference! The steering was 99% better and vibration free the entire drive.
It took a few tries (starting with Firestone for road force balancing, would definitely not recommend Firestone and Firestone was more expensive than dealer...) and a couple of months, but I’m extremely happy we finally got it sorted. I’m definitely planning to bring my summer BBS RIA wheels to BMW this summer for road force balancing—I suspect they might also be slightly out of road force spec. I still can't believe it was the balancing but I am happy it was and we got it fixed. I drove it a good bit on the highway last night and it is 99% perfect. I swear I still felt something tiny shake every once in a while but I think I may be crazy/it's just the road I'm feeling. Night and day difference, crazy to think its always just been the wheel balance... Prior owner got the wheels/tires done at Costco, had shake, my bbs are unknown/I got them mounted already, then these silver oem 359's Firestone was a pretty bad shake.
Apologies for the thread jacking but hopefully this can help someone in future who is also in denial about it being road force wheel balancing! I was convinced it was going to be a wheel bearing or rack.
It's super cold here in Connecticut so I won't be putting the spacers back on quite yet but when I do in a month or two I'll try to update.
What we did:
Last week, they outsourced the wheel repair. From what I can gather, the guy managed to get the wheel round, but in the process, it ended up out of balance, wheel weights fell off possibly, hence why the shake felt worse/unchanged.
I took the car back to BMW, and they were great about it. This morning, I went for a ride with the foreman, and he noticed the pretty big shake immediately, just a second after I hit 75 mph. He immediately called out its probably a wheel balance...
They rebalanced all four wheels, the repaired rf one was out of road force balance spec. Rebalanced all and swapped rf to lf.
When I picked up the car, I went for another ride with the foreman, and I couldn’t believe the difference! The steering was 99% better and vibration free the entire drive.
It took a few tries (starting with Firestone for road force balancing, would definitely not recommend Firestone and Firestone was more expensive than dealer...) and a couple of months, but I’m extremely happy we finally got it sorted. I’m definitely planning to bring my summer BBS RIA wheels to BMW this summer for road force balancing—I suspect they might also be slightly out of road force spec. I still can't believe it was the balancing but I am happy it was and we got it fixed. I drove it a good bit on the highway last night and it is 99% perfect. I swear I still felt something tiny shake every once in a while but I think I may be crazy/it's just the road I'm feeling. Night and day difference, crazy to think its always just been the wheel balance... Prior owner got the wheels/tires done at Costco, had shake, my bbs are unknown/I got them mounted already, then these silver oem 359's Firestone was a pretty bad shake.
Apologies for the thread jacking but hopefully this can help someone in future who is also in denial about it being road force wheel balancing! I was convinced it was going to be a wheel bearing or rack.
It's super cold here in Connecticut so I won't be putting the spacers back on quite yet but when I do in a month or two I'll try to update.
Update:
On a road trip today still feeling a slight shimmy. Seems to be slightly different on different highways but drove the car about 4 hours today on highway. I'd say this is like a 1/10 vs before was like a 7/10. So hardly really noticeable but definitely a little rhythmic vibration I am feeling at 85ish, doesn't seem to get worse like before when the wheel was really out of whack. Not noticeable when both hands are on the wheel, I started noticing with one hand barely on the wheel. No spacers on the 359's current, tire pressures all good, etc. I'm probably just going to live with this how it is. I am doing a 1300 mile road trip in a few weeks...(and then back a few weeks later) so that will give me plenty of states to test different highways. (I'm not planning on testing spacers before my trip or throwing them on for my trip, mainly for rubbing with a loaded car)
Saw this thread from someone else recent and wanted to share it here to see if they solve their issue:
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=31830591#post31830591
On a road trip today still feeling a slight shimmy. Seems to be slightly different on different highways but drove the car about 4 hours today on highway. I'd say this is like a 1/10 vs before was like a 7/10. So hardly really noticeable but definitely a little rhythmic vibration I am feeling at 85ish, doesn't seem to get worse like before when the wheel was really out of whack. Not noticeable when both hands are on the wheel, I started noticing with one hand barely on the wheel. No spacers on the 359's current, tire pressures all good, etc. I'm probably just going to live with this how it is. I am doing a 1300 mile road trip in a few weeks...(and then back a few weeks later) so that will give me plenty of states to test different highways. (I'm not planning on testing spacers before my trip or throwing them on for my trip, mainly for rubbing with a loaded car)
Saw this thread from someone else recent and wanted to share it here to see if they solve their issue:
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=31830591#post31830591
2,500 miles of driving over the past few weeks on a road trip later. CT->FL and around FL
No spacers on the car current.
So, like 99% of the time I feel nothing
I will randomly have it happen, I am not on the brakes, on throttle or off, sometimes on a curve or odd pavement or it just happens on straight roads when cruise control has been on with zero change to road and I will start feeling it. Sometimes I think it's the highway pavement.
This has completely stumped me, it's significantly better than it was before with a bent wheel and spacers and has been completely livable and really rarely notice but I definitely will randomly get it.
I drove from Miami to Tampa the other day and only noticed it once across a five hour drive. I only notice it at 79-85. Does not get worse with speed, I sat at 130 for a bit and smooth as butter, got it up to 150 and smooth on brakes down from that. (This was definitely in Mexico, wink wink)
I notice it with the car loaded with passenger and luggage and when it's just me and empty.
My only thought could be steering rack or something else, at this point I am just going to live with it. I will check back here occasionally since this has been the vain of my existence.
No spacers on the car current.
So, like 99% of the time I feel nothing
I will randomly have it happen, I am not on the brakes, on throttle or off, sometimes on a curve or odd pavement or it just happens on straight roads when cruise control has been on with zero change to road and I will start feeling it. Sometimes I think it's the highway pavement.
This has completely stumped me, it's significantly better than it was before with a bent wheel and spacers and has been completely livable and really rarely notice but I definitely will randomly get it.
I drove from Miami to Tampa the other day and only noticed it once across a five hour drive. I only notice it at 79-85. Does not get worse with speed, I sat at 130 for a bit and smooth as butter, got it up to 150 and smooth on brakes down from that. (This was definitely in Mexico, wink wink)
I notice it with the car loaded with passenger and luggage and when it's just me and empty.
My only thought could be steering rack or something else, at this point I am just going to live with it. I will check back here occasionally since this has been the vain of my existence.
ethhaynes7 wroteIt's possible one or more of your tires has a small manufacturing defect or has developed one due to road hazard or pothole impact. You and your car's chassis are sensitive to it. Certain road imperfections, undulations or storm water grooving on the road surface excite the tire's non uniformity at certain speeds by harmonic resonance phenomena, but then as the surface changes the resonance goes away. In the tire industry this effect is known as "high speed uniformity". Try swapping the left front tire and wheel assembly with the right front tire and wheel assembly. Be careful to torque the wheel nuts in a star pattern with little to no vertical load on the assembly.2,500 miles of driving over the past few weeks on a road trip later. CT->FL and around FL
No spacers on the car current.
So, like 99% of the time I feel nothing
I will randomly have it happen, I am not on the brakes, on throttle or off, sometimes on a curve or odd pavement or it just happens on straight roads when cruise control has been on with zero change to road and I will start feeling it. Sometimes I think it's the highway pavement.
This has completely stumped me, it's significantly better than it was before with a bent wheel and spacers and has been completely livable and really rarely notice but I definitely will randomly get it.
I drove from Miami to Tampa the other day and only noticed it once across a five hour drive. I only notice it at 79-85. Does not get worse with speed, I sat at 130 for a bit and smooth as butter, got it up to 150 and smooth on brakes down from that. (This was definitely in Mexico, wink wink)
I notice it with the car loaded with passenger and luggage and when it's just me and empty.
My only thought could be steering rack or something else, at this point I am just going to live with it. I will check back here occasionally since this has been the bane of my existence.
.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_uniformity
DrFerry wroteI'll give that a test but I can't imagine a nice set of new Michelin Pilot sports having this problem, other brands yes but Michelin...idkIt's possible one or more of your tires has a small manufacturing defect or has developed one due to road hazard or pothole impact. You and your car's chassis are sensitive to it. Certain road imperfections, undulations or storm water grooving on the road surface excite the tire's non uniformity at certain speeds by harmonic resonance phenomena, but then as the surface changes the resonance goes away. In the tire industry this effect is known as "high speed uniformity". Try swapping the left front tire and wheel assembly with the right front tire and wheel assembly. Be careful to torque the wheel nuts in a star pattern with little to no vertical load on the assembly.
.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_uniformity
Thank you for the link and info!
ethhaynes7 wroteRoad hazard such as potholes or curb impact can also introduce non uniformities in even the very best tires.I'll give that a test but I can't imagine a nice set of new Michelin Pilot sports having this problem, other brands yes but Michelin...idk
Thank you for the link and info!
