If you don’t mind my asking — how much for that short block? May make sense for me to pull my 150k block over the winter and get this done.
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m3s65b4.x wroteIs this accurate? Everyone was complaining the machine shop didn't use a torque plate when they reconditioned his block.PS. Someone has more information about Sreten's M539 reconditioned S65 alusil engine with extra care which ated himself by 10.000 km if i understand correctly?
Is there a reason not to redo the mains if rebuilding to this level or am I misunderstanding something?
darren p. I think the problem is the Title of the video is a bit misleading. Cause all they really did was cleaning. But if you are boring or honing, you are supposed to use a torque plate. You don’t have to touch the main if there’s nothing wrong with it.
Jbonly21 wroteDon’t you want higher clearance bearings there too, like the rods?
m3s65b4.x wroteHis S65 did the same? I thought it was the Alpina engine that went kamikaze.6 months is really tough waiting time, i'd go with new short engine 11110036844
PS. Someone has more information about Sreten's M539 reconditioned S65 alusil engine with extra care which ated himself by 10.000 km if i understand correctly?
He had an Alpina engine that shit the bed after a rebuild. The S65 always had a broken crank. H2 did the refresh on the S65.
spammysammich wroteRight so the S65 didn't destroy itself, that was the Alpina engine. Thought I missed something as I didn't watch some of his recent uploads.He had an Alpina engine that shit the bed after a rebuild. The S65 always had a broken crank. H2 did the refresh on the S65.
Very interesting seeing the progress on this build. Many must be thinking the same of having a spare engine like this on hand 'just in case'.
If I recall correctly one of the engines he rebuilt had been sleeved and that didn’t work out.
spammysammich wroteYup, that's the Alpina engine I'm referring to.If I recall correctly one of the engines he rebuilt had been sleeved and that didn’t work out.
sry for long posting and off topic i picked up from another thread. I'll hope OP will end up with good stroker/engine.
I was in same confusion, germans didn't use torque plate and wonder how they succseeded to this time.
Search in YT gives no answer:
I was in same confusion, germans didn't use torque plate and wonder how they succseeded to this time.
Search in YT gives no answer:
Chrisyphus wroteI agree with almost everything you've said here, except for the last two points- I firmly disagree that any shop in the States can do it, and that any shop in Germany can do it. Here's why:
Here, in the forums and in general, there is an obscene amount of misinformation regarding alusil reconditioning. We at Partee Racing do this every day. Actually every day we have Alusil blocks being bored, honed, and exposed in our machines in our shop. we see everything everyone says/does regularly and the vast majority of the time, it is wrong.
As I said, you are nearly dead on with your points and it sounds like your rebuild was successful, but that makes you the exception, not the norm. I cannot tell you how often we get calls from potential clients who had a shop do work for them, and then their cylinder walls disintegrated.
The fact of the matter is that if you do not have the right machines and equipment in addition to the Goodson products, the machinists are guessing. We verify every single cylinder with a profilometer before we pull the block out of the hone. The crazy part is that, even though we do multiple blocks per week, it's usually a two- or three-step process to get the cylinders perfectly in spec with the profilometer because they all behave slightly differently.
Sreten of E39M5 restorations had an EXTREMELY reputable shop in Germany do his block for his project Frankfurt build, and that engine ate itself in less than 10,000 KM. He flew here to our shop last fall to have a new motor reconditioned and blueprinted by us, and showed us the video he took at the other machinist's shop, and we could tell just by the speed the hone was moving that it was wrong. I had already spotted the issue when I watched his video before meeting him and saw just how rough his bores looked. Goodson says a dull matte finish, but the profilometer says a semi-gloss/satin finish is right.
We have observed that the vast majority of shops that claim the ability to do Alusil are guessing while they are doing it. They are guessing because the how-to guide on Goodson's website is simply incomplete.
My whole point with all of this being: there absolutely is public information that will get you most of the way there. But if you want to nail the perfect spec for cylinder finish every single time across hundreds of engines like we have, there absolutely is a recipe for success.
I would LOVE to discuss this further. We do not offer a basic rebuild for the S65 because OE oversized pistons are so obscenely expensive that it just doesn't make sense. I would love to be able to offer a far more cost-effective option for rebuilding to the community than starting with our Tier 2 engine, which comes with a completely forged rotating assembly.
darren p. wroteIs this accurate? Everyone was complaining the machine shop didn't use a torque plate when they reconditioned his block.
Is there a reason not to redo the mains if rebuilding to this level or am I misunderstanding something?
a5m wroteHis S65 did the same? I thought it was the Alpina engine that went kamikaze.
m3s65b4.x wroteThank you for posting that and yeah, sorry to the OP if this is going off topic but I think its all related and worthy of discussion here.sry for long posting and off topic i picked up from another thread. I'll hope OP will end up with good stroker/engine.
I was in same confusion, germans didn't use torque plate and wonder how they succseeded to this time.
Search in YT gives no answer:
Jbonly21 wroteInteresting, so they only honed but didn't use a torque plate still and apparently the engine failed pretty quickly. Wonder if it was bad machining or bad assembly?
I understand nothing was wrong with the mains but how much extra would it be to touch them? What machine work needs to happen to replace the main bearings if any? With all the talk of main bearing failure, wouldn't now be a good time to do it?
Won't your new pistons need to be balanced to the existing crank/rods?
darren p. there’s no main bearings work, All you can do is change the bearings.
darren p. wroteNo machine work needs to happen to change the main bearings; you just need to take measurements to determine the correct size of bearing to use. You do not gain main bearing clearance by machining the block, you just use bearing shells that give an extra .0005" extra clearance per shell (up to .001" per journal). The only time you would break out the line hone for the mains is if a bearing spun and you needed to clean it up and then use oversized main bearings to bring everything back into spec.Interesting, so they only honed but didn't use a torque plate still and apparently the engine failed pretty quickly. Wonder if it was bad machining or bad assembly?
I understand nothing was wrong with the mains but how much extra would it be to touch them? What machine work needs to happen to replace the main bearings if any? With all the talk of main bearing failure, wouldn't now be a good time to do it?
Won't your new pistons need to be balanced to the existing crank/rods?
Additionally, the lack of a torque plate is not what causes Alusil walls to fail. BMW does not bore or hone their blocks with torque plates. We have measured and observed this on dozens of brand-new blocks we have bought from BMW over the years. Out of the box, the cylinders are perfectly round; install torque plates and they are materially distorted. In all honesty, you could (and nearly all shops do) run them perfectly fine like this without issue, but we still rehone the brand new blocks with torque plates to make the cylinders are perfectly round in operating conditions. Typically, this takes us to BMW's first oversize.
What causes piston rings to eat Alusil cylinder walls is an improper surface finish. Under normal operating conditions, from the piston rings' perspective, it should only ever touch silicon. if the valleys between the crystals are too deep (or not deep enough, on the scale of tenths of micrometers), the rings will scrape out the silicon crystals and come into contact with Aluminum, and the Aluminum will lose that battle.
I feel like I am replying to a lot of your posts on several threads today, it's just that you're asking great questions!
This project is taking way longer than I expected, but it’s going to be worth it!
Jbonly21 wroteAnd now the fun begins. Did you end up going the stroker crank route or just an overbore and hone?This project is taking way longer than I expected, but it’s going to be worth it!
No, just overbore and hone.
Got the bedplate done over the weekend, but waiting on my sealer. Which it turns out BMW doesn’t make any more. FCP been a bit slow with the shipping, hopefully I should have the rest of my parts delivered by next week. I need break in oil recommendation.
Jbonly21 wroteBummer on FCP being slooow. Just in case, I also found the bed plate sealer on BMWPartsDeal.com. They're on South El Monte, California - with a "1-3 business days to ship" notation. The block rebuild is looking good though. Very clean.Got the bad plate done over the weekend, but waiting on my sealer. Which it turns out BMW doesn’t make any more. FCP been a bit slow with the shipping, hopefully I should have the rest of my parts delivered by next week. I need break in oil recommendation.
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https://www.bmwpartsdeal.com/parts/bmw-liquid_sealant_loctite_193140-83190439030.html
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PS: I assume the OEM BMW M Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10W60 Motor Oil factory fill should be good for the break-in period unless
deansbimmer says otherwise.https://www.ecstuning.com/b-castrol-parts/edge-professional-tws-engine-oil-10w-60-1-quart/07510009420~cas/
Jbonly21 wroteExcellent work and thanks for sharing with the community. I've heard engine builders recommend this break in oil for a few hundred miles:Got the bad plate done over the weekend, but waiting on my sealer. Which it turns out BMW doesn’t make any more. FCP been a bit slow with the shipping, hopefully I should have the rest of my parts delivered by next week. I need break in oil recommendation.
Driven Racing Oil BR30 Break-In Motor Oil
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/jgr-01806
Good luck!
Does the primer come with the sealant? I can’t tell by the link. It should be a green colored primer if I recall correctly.
DrFerry wroteThanks for all the responses, I really appreciate it. I was able to source the seal, I am having a hard time finding bedplate injection valve. Would be really nice to have them by the weekend.Bummer on FCP being slooow. Just in case, I also found the bed plate sealer on BMWPartsDeal.com. They're on South El Monte, California - with a "1-3 business days to ship" notation. The block rebuild is looking good though. Very clean.
.
https://www.bmwpartsdeal.com/parts/bmw-liquid_sealant_loctite_193140-83190439030.html
.
PS: I assume the OEM BMW M Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10W60 Motor Oil factory fill should be good for the break-in period unless
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-castrol-parts/edge-professional-tws-engine-oil-10w-60-1-quart/07510009420~cas/
