Nice work guys, really sick if you are able to get this done and probably worth a nice chunk of chain to the group that gets the info if indeed MDM can be "activated". On cars without MDM option/iDrive
Cheers,
e46e92
Cheers,
e46e92
52.6KVIEWS
198REPLIES
7APPRECIATES
12-07-2018LAST POST
Thanks a bunch Finnegan. I was just wondering yesterday how things were coming, so I look forward to your update.
Update coming by end of this weekend. 
I've got everything I need for the next steps which I outlined in this post:
For more details refer to the post linked above and general discussion on page 4 of the thread.
I've got everything I need for the next steps which I outlined in this post:
Step 1: Try to read an MDM car.*
Step 2: Correspond with BT--see where we can get with that.
Step 3: Determine how to proceed after step 2.
* I'm hoping this will work but it may not since the ability to "see" that part of DSC/MDM may not yet be coded in the tool. But it seems sensible to test that first before bugging BT about "can you add this".
Step 2: Correspond with BT--see where we can get with that.
Step 3: Determine how to proceed after step 2.
* I'm hoping this will work but it may not since the ability to "see" that part of DSC/MDM may not yet be coded in the tool. But it seems sensible to test that first before bugging BT about "can you add this".
For more details refer to the post linked above and general discussion on page 4 of the thread.
Finnegan wroteNice!Update coming by end of this weekend.
I've got everything I need for the next step.
Hoping for some good news.
michaeldorian wroteMe too. If not, I'll try to get BT to add the ability to read it. And then we'll go from there!Nice!
Update:
The BT Scan Tool can't "see" the portion of the DSC/MDM part of the Tech Package.
This isn't unexpected for reasons that can be found in earlier parts of this thread.
All is not lost, I'm on to step 2--contacting BT about adding the ability to read it and maybe more functionality (activations, commands) around it. I'll see where I get with that and report back.
In the meantime, if anyone else wants to pursue other approaches that's welcome too of course!
The BT Scan Tool can't "see" the portion of the DSC/MDM part of the Tech Package.
This isn't unexpected for reasons that can be found in earlier parts of this thread.All is not lost, I'm on to step 2--contacting BT about adding the ability to read it and maybe more functionality (activations, commands) around it. I'll see where I get with that and report back.
In the meantime, if anyone else wants to pursue other approaches that's welcome too of course!
Finnegan wroteThanks for the update again! Back to waiting.Update:
The BT Scan Tool can't "see" the portion of the DSC/MDM part of the Tech Package.
All is not lost, I'm on to step 2--contacting BT about adding the ability to read it and maybe more functionality (activations, commands) around it. I'll see where I get with that and report back.
In the meantime, if anyone else wants to pursue other approaches that's welcome too of course!
michaeldorian wroteOn the plus side, I have a car with tech I have access to now so that's no longer a barrier. I wish there were a way to speed this up!Thanks for the update again! Back to waiting.
Thanks Finnegan. I wish I had more time, because playing with a CAN BUS analyzer would be fun, and I'd probably learn a ton. If I can find a cheap one or one with a free trial I might try to do it... if I can find the time.
While I applaud the "technical" knowledge necessary to accomplish this task, I have to ask, "Why?" "Because it's there" isn't really an answer.
Thus far, the posts in here all say the same thing, "If you could do that, I'd love it. I'd pay for it." Really? It seems to me that if your amortize the time spent on this project, the actual costs in obtaining the tools and equipment, etc., the necessary costs one would have to charge to offer something like this to the masses would far exceed the cost of simply optioning your car with the M-Button to begin with. Frankly, I've never understood this thought process - "I really wish 'X' company would offer the car with 'Y' option instead of the way they do it now." Well, okay, but they don't, for a reason - usually because it would be far too cost prohibitive to option the car a'la carte they way people want it done. I've had this discussion with my other cars as well, especially my Corvette. People on the Vette forums bitch and moan that the DVD system doesn't play movies while in motion and some other nav system complaints. They have spent YEARS trying to hack the code in the nav system, all to no avail. The time and effort wasted on that would have paid for an aftermarket nav install more to their liking a thousand times over. Why do it? For the "fun" of beating the BMW engineers and decoding their work? Great, but that's not a business model, and it certainly won't help when the warranty is voided.
Just my $0.02.
Thus far, the posts in here all say the same thing, "If you could do that, I'd love it. I'd pay for it." Really? It seems to me that if your amortize the time spent on this project, the actual costs in obtaining the tools and equipment, etc., the necessary costs one would have to charge to offer something like this to the masses would far exceed the cost of simply optioning your car with the M-Button to begin with. Frankly, I've never understood this thought process - "I really wish 'X' company would offer the car with 'Y' option instead of the way they do it now." Well, okay, but they don't, for a reason - usually because it would be far too cost prohibitive to option the car a'la carte they way people want it done. I've had this discussion with my other cars as well, especially my Corvette. People on the Vette forums bitch and moan that the DVD system doesn't play movies while in motion and some other nav system complaints. They have spent YEARS trying to hack the code in the nav system, all to no avail. The time and effort wasted on that would have paid for an aftermarket nav install more to their liking a thousand times over. Why do it? For the "fun" of beating the BMW engineers and decoding their work? Great, but that's not a business model, and it certainly won't help when the warranty is voided.
Just my $0.02.
MN M3 wrotea) There are already lots of cars without the M button. So its too late for that solution. Nevermind that practically speaking, that solution is impossible since there are thousands of individuals responsible for ordering cars, many of them dealership employees who will not become the eventual owner of the car.It seems to me that if your amortize the time spent on this project, the actual costs in obtaining the tools and equipment, etc., the necessary costs one would have to charge to offer something like this to the masses would far exceed the cost of simply optioning your car with the M-Button to begin with.
...
Just my $0.02.
b) Plenty of aftermarket solutions exist to provide OEM or OEM-like functionality, sometimes cheaper than OEM.
c) Even people with the M-Button would still benefit from being able to switch on MDM via the console.
PencilGeek wrotePG, I agree, that's what will probably happen, but I'm going to ask anyway. The worst they can say is "no".I doubt BT will add this -- there simply isn't much of a business reason to do so. You need a CAN bus analyzer to read everything on the bus. Basically, you'll need to reverse-engineer the messages and figure out which one is the DSC enable/disable commands.
It will be a lot of work, but probably not impossible.
If they do, then the CAN bus analyzer is the required route. And that's where I'll gracefully bow out since that's way out of my league.
As for the questions about "why", well "why not" give it a shot? There are module-based solutions that have already provided the ability to do things the car cannot do with "stock". For example, it's now possible to run a DVD while this particular car is in motion. It appears that in terms of electronic modules and mechanics MDM and non-MDM cars are the same. It's a matter of trying to send the appropriate message on the CAN bus. So there is good reason to think we might be able to do this.
As to the financial analysis, sometimes people do things for other reasons--like "fun". If you look at a DIY project on your car, say an stealth install of a V1, if you modelled the costs (of your time) vs. some "expert" doing it the expert might be the better deal. But for some working on the car and doing it themselves is fun. This project is a bit of investigation and problem solving--a puzzle if you will. Some, like me, enjoy working through problem solving and puzzles...simple as that.
Also, there are folks on this board who IRL work with bus messaging, electrical engineering, and other related professions. We have access to some good minds/resources, and those would be needed to get to a working solution. Some of them may want to contribute to give back to the community. I for one have found the community here very helpful and this is one way (very small way) I can give back to it.
Good luck on your quest! But you might be out of your league. My car had a major DSC Malfunction in MDM mode while i was on the Nordschleife. It took BMW engineers from Munich a whole week to resolve the issue. the car has to many sensors to measure pitch, rol,l wheel speed and ETC. Our cars have a GYRO or pitch yaw controller or what ever it's called under neath the drivers seat this is what failed on my car.
If you want MDM mode buy a car with Tech package!
Finnegan wroteAll true, but I believe that the original intent of this "program" was to turn it into a viable business opportunity. EAS sells the DVD "override" box you mentioned earlier (nearly $200, plus labor to install, and it requires cutting the factory wires - auto warranty void, probably on all the electronics in the car, per BMW), but I'm willing to bet it isn't a huge seller - they are probably breaking even on it, at best. Still, they are making a product and selling it, and they aren't selling it to lose money. The same is true here. Doing something for "fun" isn't a business - it's a hobby. Someone here is going to want to make money doing this - they aren't simply going to travel the country installing this stuff for free in the cars of all those requesting it. So, money will exchange hands. My point was that the cost associated with doing this will far exceed what it would cost to simply option the car from the factory with it already installed. Retrofitting is hardly ever a money saver. Add to that the voidance of your warranty, and you can see my point (unless you are simply in love with changing things for the hell of doing it - in which case, we aren't talking about a business opportunity, we're again talking about a hobby, and my point is moot then).As for the questions about "why", well "why not" give it a shot? There are module-based solutions that have already provided the ability to do things the car cannot do with "stock". For example, it's now possible to run a DVD while this particular car is in motion. It appears that in terms of electronic modules and mechanics MDM and non-MDM cars are the same. It's a matter of trying to send the appropriate message on the CAN bus. So there is good reason to think we might be able to do this.
As to the financial analysis, sometimes people do things for other reasons--like "fun". If you look at a DIY project on your car, say an stealth install of a V1, if you modelled the costs (of your time) vs. some "expert" doing it the expert might be the better deal. But for some working on the car and doing it themselves is fun. This project is a bit of investigation and problem solving--a puzzle if you will. Some, like me, enjoy working through problem solving and puzzles...simple as that.
Also, there are folks on this board who IRL work with bus messaging, electrical engineering, and other related professions. We have access to some good minds/resources, and those would be needed to get to a working solution. Some of them may want to contribute to give back to the community. I for one have found the community here very helpful and this is one way (very small way) I can give back to it.
One more thing - I see this kind of thing all over other message boards - "Hey, let's all work together and see if we can hack the original designers' intentions." I have yet to really see it work. It's one thing to splice some wires to fool a DVD player into working. It's quite another to reprogram an entire car to allow it to operated differently than intended from the factory. Good luck, but I have a suspicion it will simply peter out and go nowhere. This thread is already gathering dust, and no one has reported any significant progress.
MN M3 wroteI beg to differ. there are only 2 wires cut (the other 2 are merely tapped), and it's one of our most popular upgrades for MY09+ CiC-equipped M3s.All true, but I believe that the original intent of this "program" was to turn it into a viable business opportunity. EAS sells the DVD "override" box you mentioned earlier (nearly $200, plus labor to install, and it requires cutting the factory wires - auto warranty void, probably on all the electronics in the car, per BMW), but I'm willing to bet it isn't a huge seller - they are probably breaking even on it, at best. Still, they are making a product and selling it, and they aren't selling it to lose money. The same is true here. Doing something for "fun" isn't a business - it's a hobby. Someone here is going to want to make money doing this - they aren't simply going to travel the country installing this stuff for free in the cars of all those requesting it. So, money will exchange hands. My point was that the cost associated with doing this will far exceed what it would cost to simply option the car from the factory with it already installed. Retrofitting is hardly ever a money saver. Add to that the voidance of your warranty, and you can see my point (unless you are simply in love with changing things for the hell of doing it - in which case, we aren't talking about a business opportunity, we're again talking about a hobby, and my point is moot then).
Good luck on the project guys.
tom @ eas wroteThanks Tom! If we all took the kind of advice some have offered the list of available mods and options (such as the modules EAS offers) would be rather limited!I beg to differ. there are only 2 wires cut (the other 2 are merely tapped), and it's one of our most popular upgrades for MY09+ CiC-equipped M3s.
Good luck on the project guys.
MN M3 wroteNope. Here's the OP:All true, but I believe that the original intent of this "program" was to turn it into a viable business opportunity.
"My M3 has no MDM on it at the moment. Is there a possible way for me to get one for my car? (I have no iDrive)"
Nothing about business opportunities there. The guy simply wanted to know if he good get MDM somehow. Others are interested also. If you are not interested, your best option is probably to just go read other things that do interest you. I encourage you to do just that.
mkoesel wroteI never said the OP wanted to start a business - I said that the responses in here all speak of, "Gee if someone would do this, it would be great! I'd pay $$ for it...." That's the business I speak of.Nope. Here's the OP:
"My M3 has no MDM on it at the moment. Is there a possible way for me to get one for my car? (I have no iDrive)"
Nothing about business opportunities there. The guy simply wanted to know if he good get MDM somehow. Others are interested also. If you are not interested, your best option is probably to just go read other things that do interest you. I encourage you to do just that.
As for tom @ eas - I like your products. But, my point remains the same - someone engineered a little box to fool the DVD player. Great. That's pretty easy to do - it's not reprogramming the whole car. A totally different thing. Also, you admit you have to cut wires. There goes the warranty, and you know it, same with this little project. All I'm saying is be honest about it.
MN M3 wroteI'm not sure where there any clear examples of anyone is not being honest in there?I never said the OP wanted to start a business - I said that the responses in here all speak of, "Gee if someone would do this, it would be great! I'd pay $$ for it...." That's the business I speak of.
As for tom @ eas - I like your products. But, my point remains the same - someone engineered a little box to fool the DVD player. Great. That's pretty easy to do - it's not reprogramming the whole car. A totally different thing. Also, you admit you have to cut wires. There goes the warranty, and you know it, same with this little project. All I'm saying is be honest about it.
The two aren't even closely related. But on the TVinMOTION modules:
1. It's not easy to do. There are multiple signals in the car that (not only ebrake and ABS) that indicate the vehicle is in motion. The modules are even USB upgradable.
2. Warranty cannot be voided if there isn't an issue in the first place, nor if the item in question didn't cause said damage in the first place. To date, there has never been a single issue with reliability or performance on any of our modules.
IMHO - If you're not interested in either of the projects, there's really no need to comment on the thread.
However, a lot of new innovative ideas/projects are the end result from other people saying "they cant".
Guys, I've looked at other posts by our friend and I see a similar trend in terms of responses/comments to the ones (all 23 to date) we see here. I'm not responding any further than this--I simply won't take the bait.
