Staggered vs. square

Iyzmi wrote

No worries man, absolutely not taking your posts as argumentative and I appreciate your insight! I've read damn near every wheel related post you've made over the years while researching my options...

Finish will be up to the quality of the powder coat job and will be a factor regardless of OEM vs ZCP. AG 359s are a very common wheel and virtually no one has complained about strength. Resale is of no concern, and given the lower initial cost it would actually likely be better than buying brand new ZCPs if I ended up selling at some point. I would powder coat rather than paint for durability. I know plenty of people with powder coated wheels and not a single one has had issues with weakened wheels so I'm willing to take my chances on the minimal risk.

I'm thinking here...

I remember a reputed M3forum.net user called Mr Wolfe. If I'm not mistaken, he bought ZCP wheels (OEM) and then took them to a place that made them wider, basically by welding an additional section.

This allowed him to have really wide ZCP wheels.

Maybe this is the perfect option?


As far as APEX, yes they are good for the track but aesthetically (due to details and finish) cannot hold a candle to the ZCP or the TE:AL wheel from Bimmerworld.

@VIBE Motorsports has a really nice wheel, the VS02. This is available in 19"
https://www.vibemotorsports.com/store/wheels-and-tires/wheels/vs-forged-vs02-brushed-ddt-20x9-20x10-5-5x120-72-56?sort=rating

slicer wrote

Cool, glad you took it in the way I meant it. I have tried replica wheels in the past and the hassles of bent and cracked wheels are not for me. I will gladly pay for a higher quality product. You may want to dig a little deeper on the AG's. As shown by the post above^^

Also, another thing to keep in mind is the perspective that I'm coming from. I'm a complete wheel geek. Not sure why but I am. Further, the first thing I do to any car is attempt to improve the handling. That's my favorite aspect of this platform - tied with the exhaust note and high revving nature of the S65. The last thing I would do to the car is add a supercharger. That being said, I'm obsessed with the details of handling - hence my unwillingness to use a wheel that is not the ideal spec (or close to it) for the tires I choose. There are always compromises needed but in this case you don't need to compromise IMO. Best of luck and I hope whatever you choose works perfectly for your needs!

I've got plenty of time to make a decision and am in no rush so I'll do some more research. Basically everything I've seen on this forum is positive so that gives me some hope. I appreciate the heads up though!!

We certainly have different goals with this platform. I am more than happy with the stock handling characteristics. My very first mod was a supercharger, and I probably wouldn't own this car without one at this point to be honest. I'm right there with ya that if my goals matched yours, I would be considering completely different wheel options. Different strokes for different folks!

SYT_Shadow wrote

I'm thinking here...

I remember a reputed M3forum.net user called Mr Wolfe. If I'm not mistaken, he bought ZCP wheels (OEM) and then took them to a place that made them wider, basically by welding an additional section.

This allowed him to have really wide ZCP wheels.

Maybe this is the perfect option?


As far as APEX, yes they are good for the track but aesthetically (due to details and finish) cannot hold a candle to the ZCP or the TE:AL wheel from Bimmerworld.

@VIBE Motorsports has a really nice wheel, the VS02. This is available in 19"
https://www.vibemotorsports.com/store/wheels-and-tires/wheels/vs-forged-vs02-brushed-ddt-20x9-20x10-5-5x120-72-56?sort=rating

I vaguely remember reading about someone who stretched their ZCPs but I honestly have no idea where I'd get something like that done locally. I would also be concerned about strength and proper balance at that point. This option seems well off the beaten path so my comfort level would be far lower, but if you happen to come across more info on this I would definitely be interested in seeing it.

Too bad this never came to fruition:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1348695

Iyzmi wrote

I vaguely remember reading about someone who stretched their ZCPs but I honestly have no idea where I'd get something like that done locally. I would also be concerned about strength and proper balance at that point. This option seems well off the beaten path so my comfort level would be far lower, but if you happen to come across more info on this I would definitely be interested in seeing it.

Too bad this never came to fruition:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1348695

It is off the beaten path, that's for sure, but I also bet it works

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=578038

SYT_Shadow wrote

slicer wrote

It can be done but I still ask why? A wider wheel will deliver better performance with that tire size - and there are tons of options out there. Maybe I'm too anal but if I'm going to take the time to modify something on the car, and have the opportunity to do so in a way that optimizes that modification, then I'm going to do so.

The why is simply because he wants to use ZCP wheels.

I have no doubt I prefer wider wheels. Hell, I have two sets of square 10.5 wheels I use with 275/35 tires

And if he wants ZCP wheels I think he would better off with 275/35's or possibly 285/30 but there are very few 285/30 options. There are a zillion wheel options for the e92 that can better accommodate a 295. I can't believe there isn't a single wheel in existence that he doesn't like as much as a ZCP. But either way it's a compromise. Limiting the options to ZCP wheels requires that he compromise with either (1) A sub-par 295 fitment or (2) A narrower tire that fits better on a 10" wheel. I would choose option 2.

slicer wrote

And if he wants ZCP wheels I think he would better off with 275/35's or possibly 285/30 but there are very few 285/30 options. There are a zillion wheel options for the e92 that can better accommodate a 295. I can't believe there isn't a single wheel in existence that he doesn't like as much as a ZCP. But either way it's a compromise. Limiting the options to ZCP wheels requires that he compromise with either (1) A sub-par 295 fitment or (2) A narrower tire that fits better on a 10" wheel. I would choose option 2.

Nah, there really isn't a better looking wheel for this platform from what I've seen, especially within a reasonable price range. I've searched far and wide. Again, the only thing that comes close is the F14 SDC, which I suppose is technically still an option I would consider. That's just my opinion though which may not match yours. For example, lots of people love TE37 wheels while I think they look absolutely terrible on this platform .

I would imagine handling will be improved from stock no matter what just due to having more grip (correct me if I'm wrong) and I'm really not sure I would notice the drawbacks of a 295 on a 10" wheel in my day to day driving. It's important to keep in mind that I basically never push the handling limits of my car outside of the very-occasional track day where I run in the novice group anyway. I don't live in Cali and don't have the luxury of having canyon roads in my backyard so even runs down twisty roads are few and far between .

I totally understand and agree that a 295 on a 10" wheel is not ideal from an ultimate handling perspective, I just don't think I care about that to be honest. If I did, I would be looking at set of 18" Apex wheels. What I do care about is getting power down in 2nd gear with the supercharger and having great looking wheels...

slicer wrote

And if he wants ZCP wheels I think he would better off with 275/35's or possibly 285/30 but there are very few 285/30 options. There are a zillion wheel options for the e92 that can better accommodate a 295. I can't believe there isn't a single wheel in existence that he doesn't like as much as a ZCP. But either way it's a compromise. Limiting the options to ZCP wheels requires that he compromise with either (1) A sub-par 295 fitment or (2) A narrower tire that fits better on a 10" wheel. I would choose option 2.

There isn't a single wheel in existence I like as much on the E9X as the ZCP wheel. I just can't get enough of it

I don't see how 295 is so bad on a 10".
BMW themselves took out the GTS with a 10" wheel and a 285 rear tire. 295 is pretty close to that!
10mm more will destroy the handling of the car vs the GTS which was built for exceptional handling?

SYT_Shadow wrote

There isn't a single wheel in existence I like as much on the E9X as the ZCP wheel. I just can't get enough of it

I don't see how 295 is so bad on a 10".
BMW themselves took out the GTS with a 10" wheel and a 285 rear tire. 295 is pretty close to that!
10mm more will destroy the handling of the car vs the GTS which was built for exceptional handling?

this.
i run 295/30's on my zcp's and they look great. pilot sport 4's, so i don't know how they compare to others in terms of thickness.

although i love the beauty of the zcp wheels, i like the way 18's ride and feel. i think one of the best feeling wheels on this car would probably be the bbs rkp 18" FI. i wouldn't know, because i don't have the money for bling wheels, because racecar.

SYT_Shadow wrote

There isn't a single wheel in existence I like as much on the E9X as the ZCP wheel. I just can't get enough of it

I don't see how 295 is so bad on a 10".
BMW themselves took out the GTS with a 10" wheel and a 285 rear tire. 295 is pretty close to that!
10mm more will destroy the handling of the car vs the GTS which was built for exceptional handling?

ZCP is sick; great wheel. I like it too.

I have not denied that the 295 would work on a 10" wheel. It's not going to destroy the handling. It just won't be as good as it could be. A 275 or a 285 is a better fit. Are you disagreeing with that statement?

By the same token I will ask - is a 295 going to provide appreciable performance improvement? Will a 275 "destroy" the car's traction? I believe the sole motivation for going to a 295 in this instance is the improve straight line traction.

I don't want to argue anymore. I stated my opinion. I'll stop now.

slicer wrote

ZCP is sick; great wheel. I like it too.

I have not denied that the 295 would work on a 10" wheel. It's not going to destroy the handling. It just won't be as good as it could be. A 275 or a 285 is a better fit. Are you disagreeing with that statement?

By the same token I will ask - is a 295 going to provide appreciable performance improvement? Will a 275 "destroy" the car's traction? I believe the sole motivation for going to a 295 in this instance is the improve straight line traction.

I don't want to argue anymore. I stated my opinion. I'll stop now.

If I've come across as argumentative I apologize. This is just a conversation. I don't have 'the answer' and I am enjoying the discussion.

Personally I like maxing the wheel width for a given tire width. I switched my 10" square setups for a couple 10.5" ones without changing tire width, as more wheel provides more grip when used with the same tire.

The thing is he has a limitation which is the ZCP wheel. Other than widening the wheel through the link I sent which seems kind of ghetto, he is limited to a 10" wheel.

I think the 295 will bulge a little with that wheel and would be bad if it were on the steering end of the car, but it's not. So will a 285 have more grip than a 295 mounted on the same wheel? I still don't think so.

That said, the ps4s have tons of grip and maybe he would be happy with the 285.

Cheers man

PS4S tires don’t come in a 285, otherwise I would probably go with that.

slicer wrote

By the same token I will ask - is a 295 going to provide appreciable performance improvement? Will a 275 "destroy" the car's traction? I believe the sole motivation for going to a 295 in this instance is the improve straight line traction.

Correct, straigt line traction is the motivation here. Admittedly I am projecting on whether going from a 275 to a 295 would be an appreciable improvement in this regard and would be interested in hearing people’s first hand impressions.

I have 19x10 square ZCPs. Absolutely zero regrets and I love having the ability to rotate tires.

I love the ZCPs as well. I was going to widen the OEM 10" wheels to 11" so I can really support a 295 tire propertly. A 295 on a 11" wheel looks so good...my car with a 275/295 setup VMR V810 flow formed wheels ET25 front and rear.

slicer wrote

ZCP is sick; great wheel. I like it too.

I have not denied that the 295 would work on a 10" wheel. It's not going to destroy the handling. It just won't be as good as it could be. A 275 or a 285 is a better fit. Are you disagreeing with that statement?

By the same token I will ask - is a 295 going to provide appreciable performance improvement? Will a 275 "destroy" the car's traction? I believe the sole motivation for going to a 295 in this instance is the improve straight line traction.

I don't want to argue anymore. I stated my opinion. I'll stop now.

Slicer, good to see you on the boards again. I didn't see you for awhile.

Dave

Dave07997S wrote

slicer wrote

ZCP is sick; great wheel. I like it too.

I have not denied that the 295 would work on a 10" wheel. It's not going to destroy the handling. It just won't be as good as it could be. A 275 or a 285 is a better fit. Are you disagreeing with that statement?

By the same token I will ask - is a 295 going to provide appreciable performance improvement? Will a 275 "destroy" the car's traction? I believe the sole motivation for going to a 295 in this instance is the improve straight line traction.

I don't want to argue anymore. I stated my opinion. I'll stop now.

Slicer, good to see you on the boards again. I didn't see you for awhile.

Dave

Thanks Dave!

Iyzmi wrote

Correct, straigt line traction is the motivation here. Admittedly I am projecting on whether going from a 275 to a 295 would be an appreciable improvement in this regard and would be interested in hearing people’s first hand impressions.

A 295 on a 10 instead of a 275 should provide better traction. The squishier sidewall helps traction in a straight line. Stiff hard rubber band like tires hamper traction in a straight line. You can always try them. It’s not like rear tires last very long, assuming you drive the car. Go down in size next change if you don’t like them.

You could also try a stickier 275. If you drive only in warm weather, maybe an RA1. If you drive only in warm, dry weather, maybe an R888. Not sure if these come in 19s but they may be alternative sticky tire choices or street tires that are higher performance than what you have now.

pbonsalb wrote

A 295 on a 10 instead of a 275 should provide better traction. The squishier sidewall helps traction in a straight line. Stiff hard rubber band like tires hamper traction in a straight line. You can always try them. It’s not like rear tires last very long, assuming you drive the car. Go down in size next change if you don’t like them.

You could also try a stickier 275. If you drive only in warm weather, maybe an RA1. If you drive only in warm, dry weather, maybe an R888. Not sure if these come in 19s but they may be alternative sticky tire choices or street tires that are higher performance than what you have now.

Rear tires last about 3-4 years for me since my car spends 4 or 5 months on winter tires every year. I drive in all weather and live in Wisconsin so R888s are not an option. I currently run OEM size Potenza S04s and think the PS4S would be perfect for my needs.

Iyzmi wrote

Rear tires last about 3-4 years for me since my car spends 4 or 5 months on winter tires every year. I drive in all weather and live in Wisconsin so R888s are not an option. I currently run OEM size Potenza S04s and think the PS4S would be perfect for my needs.

Where do you live in WI? I'm from Green Bay.

slicer wrote

Where do you live in WI? I'm from Green Bay.

Small world. I'm just north of Milwaukee.

I drive year round as well, in NH, but get only 2-3 years from rear summer tires, and 3 years for the rear snow tires. PS4 should be an improvement over S04. I will probably try them next (have burned up PS2, PSS, and am on Conti ECS now). Not sure I want a sticky whiner like RE71 or RA1 on my comfy cruiser. I have RA1 for summer on my turbo E36M3 (which is also on snows now).

slicer wrote

$10k+ on a supercharger and penny pinching on wheels does not make sense to me. There are a lot higher quality options out there. Plus you could buy four 10" ZCP wheels just as easily as four 10" AG. Be sure the powder coated doesn't bake at too high of a temperature as that can weaken the wheel.

kpewpew wrote

There's more, just google "AG wheels cracked". Honestly I'm just sharing some cautionary warning because I've been through crap wheels. I consider them penny smart, pound foolish. Had rep wheels on my 325ci and once on my E46 M3 many years ago when I thought it was smart to save a couple bucks as well. It was not smart.

I understand you're really just interested in looks, so I'll step out of this thread- I simply suggest to think longer term, of the hassle and problems you may run into with higher probability.

How do you guys differentiate between high vs low quality wheels? Do you just lump all replica and not-top-dollar brand wheels in the same "crap" category regardless of anything or are there good ones and bad ones?

A quick search revealed multiple people post about bent OEM ZCP wheels, and people talking about how they are "known to be really soft." I'm not so sure the people who have complained of bent/cracked AG wheels would have fared any better with OEM. If strength is the main concern, forged is the answer.

Avante Garde wheels are low pressure cast same as OEM, they pass JWL and VIA standards, and even weigh within 1lb of OEM. AG is also not some no-name eBay China garbage brand. I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand what exactly I should be afraid of here...