Rod bearing wear, up close and personal.

330indy wrote

Doesn't this reinforce the thinking to change oil at break-in, often, perhaps multiple times....
Perhaps at 200, 500, and 1000 miles...
Especially if the particles are suspected to be in there from engine assembly.

Even if we can assume this tiny piece of flashing was from that early in the engine's life (and we can't) it probably wouldn't have made a difference in this case. The oil is filtered, and kyrix1st makes another valid point about other sources of debris. Had this particular particle been in the sump and picked up there it would have been caught before entering the oil galleries. This particle would have likely been downstream of the filter when it was dislodged. Or it could have been from an engine open service at some point in its life.

I personally don't think there's any need to change oil that often before the first thousand miles.

An excellent highly informative and Technical post. Thank you!

deansbimmer wrote

Even if we can assume this tiny piece of flashing was from that early in the engine's life (and we can't) it probably wouldn't have made a difference in this case. The oil is filtered, and kyrix1st makes another valid point about other sources of debris. Had this particular particle been in the sump and picked up there it would have been caught before entering the oil galleries. This particle would have likely been downstream of the filter when it was dislodged. Or it could have been from an engine open service at some point in its life.

I personally don't think there's any need to change oil that often before the first thousand miles.

You hit the nail on the head. More frequent OCIs or different viscosity oil wouldn't necessarily have done anything here.

This is my car! Had it in this past week, bought it two weeks ago. I've been browsing these forums for a while but it's finally time to join up...

Very interesting to see a write-up on why exactly these bearings fail. Deansbimmer took care of my rod bearings and a couple other things -- total class act.

wickz80 wrote

This is my car! Had it in this past week, bought it two weeks ago. I've been browsing these forums for a while but it's finally time to join up...

Very interesting to see a write-up on why exactly these bearings fail. Deansbimmer took care of my rod bearings and a couple other things -- total class act.

Welcome to the forums (and the madness that ensues!).

deansbimmer that last main bearing pic made me sick to my stomach (not that the others weren't giving me acid reflux already).

WTF causes this? Do you have any history on the car/maintenance/driving style? Seeing those mains is scary as f***. Now I've got to start browsing the interwebs for used Caymans (the ones w/o the IMS bearing issue). Again. FML.

wickz80 wrote

This is my car! Had it in this past week, bought it two weeks ago. I've been browsing these forums for a while but it's finally time to join up...

Very interesting to see a write-up on why exactly these bearings fail. Deansbimmer took care of my rod bearings and a couple other things -- total class act.

Did you buy it through dealership? If so, how are they dealing with this?

TheRussski wrote

Did you buy it through dealership? If so, how are they dealing with this?

This is a preventative maintenance issue...also seen as an upgrade. I don't know where he bought it but this service wouldn't concern the previous owner or dealer.

deansbimmer wrote

This is a preventative maintenance issue...also seen as an upgrade. I don't know where he bought it but this service wouldn't concern the previous owner or dealer.

Oh I see, I thought they failed after two weeks of ownership, I should’ve read it better, my bad.

Thanks so much for sharing this info. Very helpful. My '12 with 58K goes in Monday for rod bearing + engine mount replacement. Going with BE bearings.

Just out of curiosity, do you have similar pics of rod bearings from other (non-BMW) motors that show what a more typical wear pattern would look like?

Great post!

Very informative. Thank you

damn - mine has 26k, looks like i should upgrade to BE by 40k

deansbimmer wrote

I do a lot of rod bearing jobs and answer a lot of questions on the subject. I wanted to make an informational post to highlight up close views of what the bearing wear looks like under magnification. With most rod bearings coming out looking “not too bad for an S65”, this may help clear up some misconceptions and clarify how bad the visible wear really is. Maybe later I will take measurements of the worn bearings compared to new bearings to see how the oil wedge may be disrupted from the abnormal wear. This post isn't very scientific and is only based on my professional experience and ponderings.

:

Hi Deansbimmer, again this is yet another interesting post of yours. Should you be able to grab time and add some close up pictures and comparable comments on a new 702/703 shell, it would be great...

Thanks
Nik

deansbimmer wrote

This is a preventative maintenance issue...also seen as an upgrade. I don't know where he bought it but this service wouldn't concern the previous owner or dealer.

Bought the car out of Houston, used, from it's second owner. It had 70k. I had a PPI done at Motorwerks Auto Group before we agreed on price.

Flew down from DFW and drove it up.

Excellent post!

kyoo wrote

damn - mine has 26k, looks like i should upgrade to BE by 40k

I don’t know if I would wait... my car has 35k km and I just had my bearings done and i am glad I did ...

Edited first post with further detail. Hopefully more members can find it useful!

deansbimmer wrote

Edited first post with further detail. Hopefully more members can find it useful!

Love the edit!

The pic of the micro grooving made me think about the WPC bearings. Wouldn't all the micro grooving be removed via the WPC process? Seems like a less than desirable outcome.

It's knowledge like this that made me tow my (old) car from Knoxville, TN to your shop during my relocation drive. AC bearing failure was a blessing, of sorts, I guess! I've seen what the new owner has had you do to the car and it looks awesome!

The WPC peening process increases clearances by only .0002 or so. The Micro Grooving depth is deeper than what the WPC treatment will affect.

Excellent thread Deansbimmer, and very useful
Btw, you should link this thread in your sig, so anytime someone says 'those bearings look fine', you can just point them here .

PACarGuy wrote

Thanks so much for sharing this info. Very helpful. My '12 with 58K goes in Monday for rod bearing + engine mount replacement. Going with BE bearings.

Just out of curiosity, do you have similar pics of rod bearings from other (non-BMW) motors that show what a more typical wear pattern would look like?

Yea I'm wondering about this too, photos of normally worn rod bearings are rare around here .
I do plan to gather such photos myself from any engine & post a thread about it, but I haven't even started yet. Although I did see a whole 2 people post photos of good rod bearings in the 'rod bearing condition' thread, it's a massive thread to search through .
[edit] Actually I do have a single link of good RB photos from an S65, posted by Deansbimmer! See this thread
Hopefully I can get the photo to show here.....

deansbimmer wrote

Edited first post with further detail. Hopefully more members can find it useful!

I just came across your post, thank you.

I bought my 2009 e90 from the original owner, with 100k on it. Sent it straight to my shop, who is in the process of replacing the bearings (with VAC as that’s what is currently available).

Here is a pic of my old bearings...